A community building on hope : an ethnographic account of anti-racism in the Netherlands

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A community building on hope

An ethnographic account of anti-racism in the Netherlands

Jasmin Nijs (10424105) 14 December 2018 jasminnijs@gmail.com

Supervisor: Dr. F.E. Guadeloupe

MSc Cultural and Social Anthropology, GSSS University of Amsterdam

Second & Third reader: Dr. R. Spronk

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Abstract

In the last years, the topic of racism and discrimination have become of greater interest in the Netherlands. The rising popularity of right-winged political parties and an annually recurring debate surrounding the equation of Zwarte Piet (‘Black Pete’) have brought the issue of Dutch racism to the fore. Within this changing political and social landscape, topics such as diversity and inclusion have become more pressing. What are the ways to combat racism in the

Netherlands? How do white Dutch individuals identify themselves within this debate and how does the process of combatting work? In this ethnographical account I have followed two people active within the anti-racism community in the Netherlands and the work they do. Throughout this thesis I track the steps they have taken to dismantle and combat racism and discrimination and the people they have encountered doing so. I analyze events that focus on these issues and create awareness to the public. Based on talks with the people attending and the observations made during events, I try to explain how anti-racism and community go together, but also how e.g. intersectionality and privilege are being combatted. Through ethnographic analysis of conversations about experiences of racialization and cultural appropriation, a privilege walk, white peoples’ experience and interaction between trainers and participants, I show the different components of this community. I also get deeper insight in the working and building of the community and how social hierarchy plays a role, which portrays its complexity and its rich historical roots.

Key words [community, anti-racism, the Netherlands, white privilege, identity, diversity, inclusion]

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Zo mooi, zo fris, zo schoon

Zo ook precies het tegenovergestelde

Het land waar ik woon, vecht voor een bestaan en liefheb Waar alles duurder wordt, maar ook weer ondersteund wordt Als ik niets heb

Ons land, zo klein in de wereld, ook grenzen vervagen, Macht over gedragen

Nederland is niet meer het centrum van de wereld Maar de wereld heeft ons nodig en wij haar

Land van verbonden en afspraken, allianties, aktes, regels, verdragen Groot in het voorlopen en strategie

Plek voor vrijheid zoekers, mentaal en fysiek Joden, Hugenoten, Moslims, filosofen

Oorlogsslachtoffers die aankomen per boot

Surinamers, Anti’s, Turken, Marokkanen, Indo’s en Polen: Het geeft ons kleur, het maakt ons groter

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Acknowledgements

I am very thankful for everyone who wanted to work with me during my fieldwork, but especially Martin and Rosa, my key informants, who were kind enough to include me in their busy schedules and show me a little bit of their lives. I have much respect for the work they do and the positive attitude they have in doing it. It gives me hope to see that people like them are fighting the good fight. I am also thankful for my supervisor Francio Guadeloupe who took the time to guide me through this new discovered field of interest and help me understand more about what it means to write an anthropological thesis. Many thanks to Kelsey, who was willing to proofread my thesis on such short notice. Thanks to my peers, who listened to my stories and gave me feedback and shared their experiences and my friends who wanted to talk to me, discuss and sometimes even debate the issue of racism, just to give me more insight and perspective. Lastly, I want to thank Mart for supporting me on this journey (even from a long distance), being critical and encouraging me to keep going.

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Introduction

In the last years, the topic of racism and discrimination have become of greater interest in the Netherlands. The rising popularity of right-winged political parties and an annually recurring debate surrounding the equation of Zwarte Piet1_{(‘Black Pete’) have brought the issue of Dutch}

racism to the fore. Within this changing political and social landscape, topics such as diversity and inclusion have become more pressing.

The reason I wanted to do this research was my own interest in diversity, racism, and inclusivity, the knowledge I gained about minority issues in the United States during my study exchange, my question of how this would be in the Netherlands and my personal experiences with discrimination and being treated differently. Growing up in a white, Dutch, Protestant environment, I wondered if and how the people around me were confronted with racism and how they coped with this. Because I wanted some structure in researching this, I decided to contact different people that are known to tackle racism in the public. This is how I ended up working together with Martin and Rosa2_{. They were teaching others in different ways about} racist behavior, historical background, colonial past, other discriminatory issues and ways to overcome all of this.

Going into the field, my research population was mainly the white Dutch and what I was after was to figure out how these people – who are difficult to identify on paper, but self-identify as white – were being educated on racism. I started going to schools, events, meetings, and presentations. Upon meeting the people present and conversing with them, I found out that in order to get a grip on the whole picture, I had to talk to both white and non-white Dutch3_and let them share their experiences. In that way, my research population extended. I also found out that there were connections going on and the more I went to certain events, the more often I

1_{Zwarte Piet comes from the celebration of Sinterklaas every 5}th_{of December. This annual children’s’ celebration is a}

Dutch tradition. Every third Saturday of November Sinterklaas and his helpers: Zwarte Pieten come by boat from Spain and are welcomed during an intocht at one of the Dutch cities. They bring candy and presents. The arrival is televised. Up until the 5th of December, stores will be filled with figures of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet, why will be visiting schools, sport clubs, neighborhoods etc. The discussion of Zwarte Piet is based on his appearance. Usually white people paint their faces in blackface, wearing a wig, thick red lipstick and big golden earrings, while acting silly and playful. Protesters against Zwarte Piet believe it is therefore depicting black people, causing racism and want the figure to be taken out of the celebration. Because it is a nationally renowned celebration, it has become a public debate. See: Van der Aa 2018. Even though the discussion arises multiple times in my thesis, I want to stress that I will not be focusing its content.

2_{All the names in this thesis are pseudonyms, except for my supervisor’s. One venue is changed as well. This will be}

indicated with an *. I have done this in order to protect my informants and keep their identity anonymous.

3_{I use the concepts of white and non-white in the way that people self-identify. During events and meetings, people}

would indicate which category they were part of. I am aware that these categorizations are quite difficult and that the structural and empirical position get confused often. See: Guadeloupe, 2014a: note 4.

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saw similar faces coming back. The people were not only training outsiders and the public, but they were also training each other, as part of a community.4

During the first meeting with my supervisor, I wrote in a fieldnote diary: “Je neemt altijd je voorgaande ervaringen mee als het gaat om je perspectief” (‘You always carry your previous experiences with you when it comes to perspective’) and this was the case now as well. Soon I discovered a similarity in the social circles I had become part of. Going back to my Christian upbringing, this meant that I went to church on Sunday, but also that I went to Christian events inside and outside of the Netherlands that were part of the Christian community. I encountered familiar faces at different events, and there was always a connection to ‘someone that you knew’. And now here I was, in a totally different environment, but it felt so similar to what I had experienced before. People were going to different events and meeting each other there, believing in a cause, but also networking and meeting each other, as a social experience. And just as within the Christian community, here my question remained: how to reach the outside world? The people that do not understand the jargon that is used, the names that are mentioned and the concepts that seemed so clear. How do you communicate your standpoint and your beliefs to the people that you may encounter on a daily basis, but do not care for diversity and racialize and

essentializing certain cultures? The questions also brought up other things about the community that I was a part of for three months. How does this community work and function? Is this already an established community at all? What different elements does this community contain and how is it built? With these questions in mind and the question of learning about racism, I began writing my thesis, hoping to make more sense of it.

4_{Community comes in different types and forms. In this thesis I will use the idea of Benedict Anderson’s (1983: 49)}

imagined community, which is a collective of people, who do not necessarily meet each other, but have strong sense of connection (Guadeloupe, 2014b: 10) e.g. the Christian community and the anti-racist community and a so-called face-to-face community, in which people meet on a regular basis (Guadeloupe, 2014b: 9) e.g. the community in Amsterdam Zuidoost.

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Methodology

During my fieldwork, participant observation, small talk and conversations with people were my main methods of research. I found out that people were willing to share, and in combination with observing what was going on, a clearer understanding of situations was given. In the three months of fieldwork, I went to schools and events and had meetings one on one with my key informants. Most of the activities took place in Amsterdam, but some were in other cities, such as Den Haag, Alkmaar, and Utrecht.

My research population started with white Dutch, but my key informants were both non-white Dutch. The reason why I did not want to work with non-white people only is best described by sociologist Matthew Hughey:

In a hegemonic white regimen, unjust racial arrangements are internalized and endlessly reinforced in not only the organizations that aim to overtly rationalize such relations (white nationalists), but also within the very organizations delegated to recognize, facilitate, and empower nonwhite voices and help to educate and activate white allies (white antiracists) (2011: 143).

Having the combination of non-white and white Dutch seemed like a healthier basis to learn something, instead of having only ‘one side’ telling the story.

My thesis mostly consists of ‘thick description’ (Geertz 1973), meaning that it is a very extensive description of what is going on. With the use of vignettes (entry scenes) I open up each chapter to give a better understanding of what it is a case of and I have a few images of the places where events took place to give context about the location. I use case studies in each chapter to show similarities, differences and to get a deeper understanding. Another method I use is my own bodily movement. The way my body reacted in a situation says something about how I felt e.g. if it was a tense situation or if it was a positive atmosphere. I also use dress as a method. The way me and the people around me dressed says something about representation, how people are perceived and helps to frame the setting e.g. being in formal clothing or wearing the same kind of clothes every time. I also sent participants of the privilege walk I attended an e-mail with follow up questions to get a deeper understanding of what their thoughts on this were (see chapter three). At the end of the first two chapters I analyze what has happened.

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Positionality & Ethics

“When the event was finished, there were a lot of people who wanted to talk to him. More ‘important’ people, that he had invited to come, but instead of talking to them, he came up to me to ask me what I thought about the evening.”

In this fieldwork entry in my diary, I was surprised about Martin, who took the time to ask me about what I thought about the evening that just happened. In my position as a student anthropologist/researcher, I wanted to be ‘myself’ as much as possible, but I also did not want to bother anyone with anything. I wanted my fieldwork to be as constructive as possible. I was the person that suddenly came to lots of events, where I met people from before. I was a student, who did ‘fieldwork’ for the study of ‘anthropology’. All of these things were sometimes new to people, so they were curious, and probably not always knew what exactly that meant.

I asked myself a few times: “How do I see myself in this research?” The fact that I am perceived as a non-white person, may have helped getting my key informants to agree on letting me tag along, as well as Francio being my supervisor and him being the connection that put us together. But the way I looked was not all that. Also, the way I speak and my interests and background made my positionality within this research. Coming from a white environment, and having an academical background gave me benefits. I knew the issues that were going on from first hand. I grew up in the Netherlands, I celebrated Sinterklaas as a child, etc. A non-white English speaker from another country might have had a very different outcome in this research. Being a woman, speaking a ‘white language’, and being een Hollander, made me an ally to white people to tell their story, but my own experience in racism and discrimination made me an ally to non-white people.

Even so, what I found difficult in my position was sometimes the topic itself. Talking about this and feeling like I had to walk on eggshells to not offend anyone or make them feel like they were being accused of racism, when I would tell them I was particularly interested in white people and their experience and the topic of ‘Racism in the Netherlands’, which already assumes that it still exists. That was one of the struggles in my environment, but within the community I was sometimes afraid of saying the ‘wrong’ thing, or not agreeing with all that was being said.

Talking about my research topic in the context of my daily life actually stimulated my research, because e.g. friends and family are part of the group that I was interested in. With them and colleagues or just strangers at a party who would ask me what I was doing, I had little (sometimes heated) conversations about the topic.

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In terms of anonymity, I use pseudonyms and I have changed the name of one of the venues. Because this research takes place in the Netherlands and within a small community, and the details that have been disclosed in order to build my argument, I did not want my informants, who in trust told me about their lives and their experiences, to be exposed. To me, it would have been easier if I could have written a more general story about what was going on in the

Netherlands instead of disclosing my informants’ story as well as my own, but in consideration I do not think that it would have had a convincing factor and that it would have done right to the cause, had I done this. I still want to emphasize that I have major respect for anyone involved in anti-racism and all the people who had the courage to speak to me about this, for which I am very grateful and I hope that in building my argument this is not taken for granted.

When thinking about my goal for this research I wrote prior to the research: “om in een best wel moeilijk en frustrerend onderwerp (want dat vind ik wel heel vaak) het positieve te zien en te kijken hoe dit tot een constructief gesprek kan leiden en misschien wel tot verandering op kleine schaal”. (‘to see the positive in a quite difficult and frustrating (because that is what I think most of the time) topic and to see how this can lead to a constructive conversation and maybe even change on a small scale’).

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Chapter 1 Leading the community: a charismatic leader

1.1 Martin

In my search for how to make things better in the Netherlands concerning racism I started looking for people who were actively involved giving education to others about racism, and combatting this phenomenon. Through my supervisor Francio Guadeloupe, I got in touch with some of his contacts, of whom he thought were willing and able to help me with this. Eventually this led me to two people, who are both dismantling racism in the Netherlands, but in very different ways. The first person I will introduce in this chapter, and the second person in the following chapter.

First, meet Martin. When Francio said he wanted to contact Martin, I was quite curious. I had heard his name and seen his face in the media. I knew about his involvement in the national debate of Zwarte Piet and his association with the ‘Zwarte Piet is Racisme’ campaign5_{and ‘Kick} Out Zwarte Piet’.6_{How he, among others, wants to abolish Zwarte Piet in the traditional totally} blackface way and how through small protests at the intocht (‘Sinterklaas’ arrival in the

Netherlands) the debate has become a national issue and Martin a public protester and activist, which led me to believe that he was the ultimate activist. I had never met him before nor heard him speak. I decided not to google him, because, as I had come to learn, google is not very trustworthy when providing information and I did not want to feed my image of him as I already had done. After establishing contact, he wanted to meet me. On an early spring day, Martin asked me to meet just across the IJ on the other side of Amsterdam Central Station at café ‘De Pont’ (see photo 1 below).

I usually am a little late when it comes to meetings, but today I want to be on time, so I am even a few minutes early. The sun is shining very bright and I am wearing too many layers of clothing, so together with being a little nervous, I feel the temperature rising. Upon arriving at the café, there are no more tables in the shade, because they are occupied by working people with MacBooks, so I have to sit in the sun, while keeping an eye on the entrance. I go over in my head what I want to ask him and talk to him about. We agreed that I would tell him some more about my research and how he could contribute to this and I had told him that I was willing to do something for him in exchange e.g. administrative work for his organization. I look at my phone, Martin sent me a message saying that he is a little later, but on his way. I think about what I already ‘know’ about him and wonder what he will think of me. I am not an activist, not

5_{See: https://www.nederlandwordtbeter.nl/projecten/zwarte-piet-is-racisme-campagne/ (01/12/2018).} 6_{See: http://stopblackface.com/kozp/ (01/12/2018).}

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really outspoken and do not think I have that much knowledge about all the issues surrounding racism to make a grounded and persuading argument. Maybe he thinks I am lame. What if I say the wrong things or use terms that I am not supposed to? I decide that I do not want to behave differently than usual, because then the next three months of fieldwork are going to be very hard, so he will just have to accept me the way I am. I look around. Even though this is

Amsterdam, which has a high level of diversity, there are not many people of color7_{in the area,} so it will not be hard to miss him, I reckon. Then I think I see him walking casually in my direction. He looks like the man of the photos I have seen. Martin is dressed in black jeans and a black t-shirt and is wearing a backpack low on his back. I start to stand up and smile at him, so that he knows that I am the one he is looking for. At the same time, I realize that he probably does not know what I look like, but there are not many young people around, and since I am the one standing up, he probably figures it is me. We introduce ourselves and take a seat. “Pff, wat is het warm he?!” (‘Pff, how hot it is?!’) I start as an ice breaker, and then we dive right in. “Dus vertel, jij wilt onderzoek doen naar witte mensen en racisme?” (‘So, tell me, you want to do research on white people and racism?’) he asks right away. I tell him about my personal background: how I was born in China, but my Dutch parents adopted me and I grew up in a very white environment in the Netherlands, in Schiedam. How I never really thought I had any problems with racism, except for the occasionally name calling or ‘tjingtjangtjong’, until I went on exchange to the United States to study and followed a class on the Civil Rights Movement and the history of African Americans, and I realized that some of the things we talked about in class, made me think about my own experiences. How I always felt like I had to do better in life and had to be extra thankful for being brought up in a country such as the Netherlands. How color was never an issue, but I once heard my grandmother say: “Drie van mijn kleinkinderen zijn donker, maar ik behandel ze altijd gelijk hoor” (‘Three of my grandchildren are darker skinned, but I treat them the same way’). Just those little things made me think about my own identity, but also about the Netherlands. This type of inequality could not just happen in the United States, it had to be anywhere else, too. And so that is how I ended up being interested in this topic. I tell him that I watched the documentary by Sunny Bergman ‘Wit is ook een kleur’ (‘White is a color, too’) and that this was shocking, but very interesting, especially because in the documentary progressive, leftist, higher-educated white people, who would describe themselves as being tolerant and open-minded eventually also have children, who define a white doll as ‘good’ and a black doll as ‘bad’8_,

7_{I use the term ‘people of color’ for people who do not identify as white and are not perceived as white. I use it}

interchangeable with the term ‘non-white’, but mostly when in opposition of the term ‘white’.

8_{Doll experiment in ‘Wit is ook een kleur’: https://www.vpro.nl/programmas/2doc/2016/wit-is-ook-een-kleur.html}

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which shows me that this bias does not just relate to being conservative. I tell him that because of my white Dutch background and a Christian upbringing, I am particularly interested if white people, such as in my environment – whom I understand pretty well, because I usually pass for one – deal with the issue of racism, or if they do not and what motivates the ones that do.

He tells me his story. How he came to the Netherlands as a child with his father from Ghana, and also has a Christian/Catholic background and has been actively speaking out against racism for about ten years. He grew up here in the Netherlands and settled down in Amsterdam Zuidoost (‘Southeast’). He tells me that at some point he heard children in Zuidoost say that “Nederland niet om hen gaf” (‘the Netherlands did not care for them’). Amsterdam Zuidoost is known as the home for lots of non-white Dutch, especially people from West African descent and the Caribbean (e.g. Surinamese and Antilleans). This area, called the Bijlmer, is known as a place where crime rates used to be high and has been seen as the ghetto of Amsterdam. Not many people felt ‘safe’ to enter the Bijlmer as a white person. Stereotypical and ridiculous media framing has been made in Robert Vuijsje’s book and later movie ‘Alleen Maar Nette Mensen’ (‘Only Posh People’), which is about a white Jewish boy from Amsterdam Zuid (the posh part of Amsterdam), who wants to feel more ‘exotic’, and is looking for an ‘intelligent black girl’, so he comes into contact with black girls living in the Bijlmer, and his whole world is turned upside down and he has a ‘wild, exotic’ experience. The critique on the book and, especially, movie was it being sexist and stereotypical (Julen 2012). The problem with this is that, even though it is portrayed as a fictional movie, it still puts a label on the Bijlmer. In the last few years, Zuidoost has been going through a lot of changes. Students have come to live in here, companies have placed themselves in the neighborhood and gentrification9_{seems to be happening. Again,} making it hard for the people that have lived there for multiple years to keep their homes and live their lives.

After hearing this from the children, Martin thought it was time to change things. This was his starting point to take action: first organizing activities within the district, and later taking this across the country. I am not sure what he started out doing, but hearing about the summer activities he organizes for the children in the neighborhood, I figure it started out with things like that. Within taking action he does not want to rely too much on others, because others will disappoint you, but having a bigger goal in mind is his motto. He is in his late thirties, a poet, blogger and motivational speaker. He recently lost his job due to his arrest during a protest at a

9_‘_{The process of repairing and rebuilding homes and businesses in a deteriorating area (such as an urban} neighborhood) accompanied by an influx of middle-class or affluent people and that often results in the displacement of earlier, usually poorer residents.’ See:

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Sinterklaas intocht. Besides protesting in November against Zwarte Piet, the rest of the year, Martin is active in educating people about this debate, but also about the Dutch colonial history, and other issues involving racism. Since 2008 he has been travelling the country as a speaker and giving guest lessons to talk about those issues that most Dutch rather would avoid. The media has given him a certain public image, and therefore, people think they know what to expect and what to tell him and how to approach him, just like I had my presupposed view of him. Later I find out that upon googling his name (or a misspelled version of it), images show up that seem rather violent and portray him as the stereotype of an angry black man.

The atmosphere of the conversation is really relaxed. What I thought beforehand about activists, he does not fit that image to me at all. He does not even mention activism, but talks about wanting to make the Netherlands better and educating people of what they do not know and making them aware of this. He wants to hear my story and does not only want to talk ‘business’, but he is really interested in how I feel about all of this. He orders a drink and a tosti and I also order a drink. We just sit there talking for about an hour. He tells me about his two children whom he wants to give a better future, and he talks about his organization, the establishment that he works from. It attracts a lot of volunteers, but never for a long period of time, because people think it is too intense. On the outside, this kind of work seems ‘sexy’ and ‘interesting’, but in reality, it is hard and persistant.

Eventually we come down to business. He asks me why I want to work with him and what I hope to gain and tells me what he can offer me. He explains that he goes to schools to give guest lessons and that he also has single events where he is invited to be a guest speaker and that I can come with him if I want to. I ask him about events that he has coming up, but he tells me he actually does not know – he does not seem like the organized type of person – so he opens up his schedule, but can hardly read what he has scribbled down. Me, being very

organized, tries to ask direct questions about when in the next two weeks maybe, instead of the next month, he has things coming up that would be interesting. He finally says he does have some events, so I write them down and tell him I will let him know if I can make it. He asks me if I can rearrange a document for him, so that people get a better overview of what voluntary jobs are available at his organization, and tells me that if I can finish that somewhere within the next three months, he will be happy. Martin pays for my drink, which I totally did not expect and found very generous – because I asked him to meet me, so in Dutch terms, this means you are the one paying. I thank him and we go back on the ferry to Central Station and there our paths divide.

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We say goodbye, I thank him again for his time and say that we will be in touch. I am so relieved that this went well, and have a really good feeling about it. He turned out to be nothing like I expected in the way that he seems to me just a regular guy with a mission, instead of an activist who only agrees with himself and does not leave any room for different thinking, or places himself higher up in the social ladder. And I think that is really what makes him different and accessible. I feel content and less warm, because of I am not so nervous anymore and I feel excited about the next few months.

Photo 1. Café de Pont Photo 2. Buurthuis Anansi

1.2 Buurthuis Anansi

It has been a while since we met one on one, so I ask him to meet me, so that we can discuss some things and just talk a little. I am wearing jeans and a t-shirt, and brought my backpack. The sun is out and I feel comfortable, yet curious where we are going. I am also looking forward to talk again. We meet at Station Duivendrecht in Zuidoost. We then take a walk and chat about how things are going. Martin is again dressed casually in black and is wearing his black backpack. He talks about outdoor activities that he organizes this summer for children living in Zuidoost and how he has been doing this for some years now. His goal is to get the children, who live here, involved by getting them together at one of the playgrounds in the neighborhood and strengthening the community. We walk towards a little shopping area. It is true that on the way I almost only see people of color, which is very different from other areas in Amsterdam. Even though Amsterdam is supposed to be international and multicultural, it still surprises me how segregated the city is. Martin greets some of the people we see on the street, in Dutch, but also in another language. He knows the people here, and they know him. This is his community.

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Martin asks me if I am hungry, and I say that I am a little. We go to a toko and when we walk in, the woman behind the counter says: “Ha, buurman!” (‘Hi, neighbor!’), Martin tells me he lives above the toko and comes here more often. He tells me his favorite sandwich and what his girlfriend always chooses. I tell him I do not like food to be too spicy, so he chooses for me. He buys me a sandwich and we leave. Again, people stop to greet him and I wonder what people think about seeing us together. Does he bring ‘strangers’ here more often? Does he bring people that want to interview him to this neighborhood? I am not sure.

We walk even further and eventually we end up at buurthuis (‘community center’) Anansi (see photo 2 above). I enter after him with my sandwich – he already finished his on the way – and with my polite Dutch upbringing I ask if it would not be rude for me to take food that I did not buy here into the building. He looks at me as if I am crazy and says: “Nee joh, doe niet zo gek!” (‘Don’t be silly!’). He greets the person behind the counter, whom he clearly knows and asks if we can sit in for a while. She says it is fine. Martin tells me that this is a place where he comes often to work or talk to people. In my mind I think this is interesting, because it feels like a whole other world. Instead of going to a hipster, fancy café, ordering an overpriced coffee and putting yourself out there, he chooses to just go to a simple, down to earth, familiar community center, where people know him, not from tv or protests, but because he lives in the area, because he does his shopping where they do, and because his children go to their schools. I think back to how our first meeting was in a white environment, which he clearly felt comfortable about, considering he was the one that suggested going there, and how we are now in a non-white based environment, where he is feeling just right at home and what has been his basis from which he started his whole ‘mission’.

Martin tells me about ‘De School’ in Zandvoort. A school that he visited and where he gave guest lessons to different classes at the school. When discussing whether Zwarte Piet has to stay or go, some children’s first reaction was that they did not care, but at the end of the session some opinions had changed and a child even corrected a peer, saying: “Vind je dat hij nog mag blijven, zelfs na alles wat je gehoord hebt?” (‘Do you think he can still stay, even after all you have heard?’). Little reactions and changes like this show Martin that he does make a difference and to him, this can be seen as a victory. I personally witnessed these reactions by children upon going into the field.

1.3 Field stories: the three schools

Tuesday 15th_{May 2018 was my first real fieldwork day. I was going to go with Martin to} two schools, where he was going to give a guest lesson. Which schools and what the guest lesson

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was exactly about I did not know, but I expected it to be interesting. In the morning we were going to a high school (4HAVO) in Den Haag. Den Haag is part of the Randstad (the

conurbation part of the Netherlands), but it is an ethnically diverse city without a Bijlmer, such as Amsterdam has. This means that whites and non-whites mostly live in common

neighborhoods and the lower white social class of arbeiders (‘laborers’), shares the neighborhood with people from other ethnic backgrounds, such as Dutch-Turkish and Dutch- Moroccan.

I arrived early at the school, and I was not quite sure where I had to be. That morning I wore a wine-colored shirt and a pair of shorts, because it was just too hot outside. I considered putting on long pants to be more formal, but as I was going away for the whole day I did not think this was a good idea. I was wearing my backpack again, and apparently, I looked like a high schooler, because when I was waiting outside for Martin, a teacher walked by and wished me luck on my exams. I called Martin a few times, because I was afraid that I was at the wrong place, but eventually he arrived. He was wearing a white shirt with dark shorts, and of course he had his backpack with him. We rushed to the classroom. Martin introduced me as a onderzoeker (‘researcher’) and I took place at one of the empty chairs, observing what was happening. There were about twenty children sitting in a circle (around the age of sixteen) and three teachers present. In a series of masterclasses on politics, Martin was asked to talk about stereotyping, the colonial history and especially the Zwarten Pieten debat. The class had been mixed in the way that there were children from different schools attending this masterclass, but also with different ethnic backgrounds, which is in line with the city. Some white Dutch, but also Dutch-Turkish and Dutch- Moroccan. This led to interesting conversations alluding to racism, discrimination and stereotyping. What struck me first was that all children were part of little groups, which seemed like segregation within the classroom. In the circle, there were two white girls, then two white boys, girls with headscarves, some Moroccan boys, and more girls with headscarves sitting next to each other.

Martin talked about racism and the Zwarte Pieten discussion and most children were amazed by what he told, but there was also some recognition. When a debate started on racism, the two white boys were not shy to say what they wanted and to give arguments about

discrimination and the reasons behind this. It felt like they wanted to prove themselves right. For a while it was just a discussion between Martin and the two boys, the rest of the class, including the teachers, had just been watching, until one of the boys mentioned that with a job application, it would be more convenient to hire a Dutchman, instead of someone with a Muslim

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was that a Dutchman would work harder and did not need any breaks to pray, while as an employer you have to provide this to someone who is a Muslim. After this explanation another boy said that he was a Muslim, but that he did not have to pray several times a day, especially not during workhours, so that this would not be an issue. He wondered how someone could

determine whether you are a Muslim and if they wanted to pray during work hours. This situation was really interesting, because over half of the class could relate to this issue and therefore strongly agreed that this would be discrimination, while this white boy just said this without any shame and put it down as a fact. I felt myself sitting on the edge of my seat and my hands started to get sweaty and a little shaky, because I was wondering what was going to happen, but eventually the situation just diffused. The Muslim boy just shrugged and said the white boy did not understand, so we went on to the next thing.

The afternoon was going to be very different. We went overtime in the morning, so we rushed out of the building. With one of the teachers showing us the way out and thanking us for coming, Martin was already on his phone, seeing if we still had enough time for our next

appointment. I followed him, but had no idea if we were going to a train station or if he had been driving here. All of a sudden in the street next to the school, a black man with a baseball cap came out of a van to pick us up and greeted Martin in a foreign language. I was not sure if I was able to talk in Dutch to him or if I had to talk in English, but I introduced myself in Dutch and went into the van. I sat in the back. The van looked like the type that could transport a big family. Martin told me we were already running late, and that the next appointment had already started, but he hoped that we still had some time to talk. “Waar gaan we precies heen?” (‘Where are we going exactly?’) I asked. “Naar een pabo in Alkmaar” (‘To a pabo in Alkmaar’). A pabo is a Dutch school for students who want to become primary school teachers. Alkmaar is a city halfway through the province of North Holland, famous for its kaasmarkt (‘cheese market’) and can be seen as a typical Dutch city with churches and windmills and is located more in the countryside of the Netherlands than in a metropolitan area. Martin told me he was going to be part of a discussion panel. He did not tell me who else was going to be on the panel or what was going to be discussed, so I was not sure what we were going to walk in to. It was a busy day on the high way, so the driver really pushed to get there as fast as possible. Martin and the driver were talking sometimes. For the rest of the trip, the driver would just sit and drive. Martin discussed the morning session at the high school with me. We talked about the two white boys that were not afraid to express their opinions and asked Martin critical questions and objected to some of the statements that he made. One of the teachers of that morning later told us that the boys were associated with the ‘Forum voor Democratie’, – probably through their parents – a Dutch

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rightwing political party, so it was no surprise that they wanted to oppose some of Martin’s comments. We evaluated that it was still a good session – the two boys later even thanked Martin for his contribution and said they were going to think about it – and that some of the other children were not afraid to speak out against the two boys, like the Muslim boy did. I looked at my phone: 13:30, we were supposed to be there now, but we were not near the school yet. Meanwhile Martin was calling someone about another event that he was planning and when they were going to meet.

14:05, I step out the car and say: “Bedankt dat we mee mochten rijden” (‘Thank you for letting us drive along’) to the driver. I am not sure if he understands what I mean, but he smiles. Martin and I practically run to the building. It looks like we have entered a jungle. There are so many green plants in the building, and green paint on the walls. It is a tall building with three levels, and it looks relatively new. When we rush in, a man is already waiting for us. “Ah, daar zijn jullie, deze kant op” (“Ah, there you are, this way please’). “Ze hebben al uitgebreid over je gepraat en ze zijn klaar om met je te debatteren” (‘They have been discussing you at length and they are ready to debate with you’) he says to Martin. He also says that some of the students find it belachelijk (‘ridiculous’) to abolish Zwarte Piet and that they are wondering if Martin has any children and if he celebrates Sinterklaas with them. We go into the elevator to the second floor and there we are walking past all different class rooms. We arrive at a conference room and we open the door. Because of the conversation with the man I am starting to get a little nervous; we are in for a ‘battle’. When we come in, about twenty white students between the ages of eighteen to twenty look at us. Martin goes to the front and I take a seat on the side of the rows with students. They are all sitting towards the back, while a few teachers and the other panel guests are at the front. The room is set up with a big screen in the front and a whiteboard and rows of chairs as a stand. It reminds me of my old mathematics class room back in high school. A transwoman of the LGBTQ community just finished talking as we walk in. Besides her, there is a man in a wheelchair, who had talked about his disability. Martin begins setting up his presentation on the beamer and a teacher recaps what has been discussed this morning. The question of the day is: hoe kunnen we elkaar gelijk behandelen in Nederland? En wat is onze rol als leraar hierin? (‘how are we able to treat each other as equals in the Netherlands? And what is our role as teachers within this?’) This is a very legitimate question in this context, since the students will be teaching next generations of Dutch children and diversity in its broadest sense has a lot to do with this. In the social context issues of racism, discrimination, ability/disability and sexuality are high on the agenda these days, it seems logical that these are the people that have been invited to talk about their experiences and to teach these students something valuable.

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Martin has about twenty minutes to present his story, but going into this I am not very

optimistic because of a few things. Hearing what the person has told us beforehand when getting into the elevator makes me wonder how open these students are to other opinions, and seeing the class and noticing that all of the students are white, which means that they take in a certain position in society has me wondering how this discussion is going to go. Just considering the fact that the students are white is not a legitimate indicator to worry, nor should it be, but the

combination of all the pre-discussion findings worries me. Martin tells the class that they can ask questions whenever they want and they should feel safe enough to say anything, so within a few minutes a firestorm of questions starts. My hands start shaking and I feel my heart beat faster. One of the students asks the question that we have heard before: “Heeft u zelf kinderen en viert u met hen wel Sinterklaas?” (‘Do you have children and do you celebrate Sinterklaas with them?’). Martin answers that he does have two children, and they celebrate Sinterklaas without Zwarte Pieten. Other students tell Martin that violence should not take place at a children’s celebration and that they should just talk with each other instead of protesting. Martin explains that this was initially done, but that people did not want to listen, so they had to take other action. He also shares his personal story of how children would call him Zwarte Piet and throw pepernoten (‘spiced cookies’) at him on the bus. The students generally do not seem moved by the story and do not show many signs of empathy. I am sitting there, sweating and I feel my heartbeat getting faster and louder. The discussion is getting heated. I see how Martin lets the students finish their rants, and how he tries to ask them questions back. It feels like an attack. They scrutinize every word he says and immediately respond if he says something they do not agree with. The atmosphere is turning. At some point a teacher, who has been sitting at the front, expresses the same. “Ik krijg het gevoel dat jullie niet echt luisteren naar wat Martin zegt, het persoonlijke verhaal wat hij jullie vertelt, maar dat jullie alleen maar proberen ertegenin te gaan; dat vind ik jammer” (‘I get the feeling that you are not listening to what Martin says, the personal story he is telling you, but that you are only going against what he says; this is disappointing to me’).

Among the students that are firm in their statements and beliefs are two guys that are eager to talk and have much to say. The rest of the class does not have much to say and the girls are very quiet throughout the discussion. One of the guys feels so awful when people accuse him of being a racist. He says: “Ik ben zo tegen racisme, als mensen dan zeggen dat ik een racist ben, omdat ik Zwarte Piet wil houden, dan doet dat echt pijn” (‘I am very much against racism, so if people tell me I am a racist, because I want to keep Black Pete, then that really hurts’). Hearing this, I want to believe that this guy, just as most of the rest of the students, does not have bad intentions. Especially surrounding this debate, a general view has emerged that whenever you say you want

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to keep Zwarte Piet, as a white person, you are a racist – this notion however, as Essed (1984: 17) claims, is naïve in the sense that it presumes that racism is a personal and not a cultural and structural manifestation – therefore, the guy feels personally attacked for being implied as a racist, which makes it worse, because he certainly does not want to be seen as one, as he

explains. I understand what he means, but at the same time I have to agree with the teacher that he and his peers are barely listening to Martin and do not want to change what they hold as their truth. What triggers me in this situation is that this is something that I have seen so many times. People do not have bad intentions saying certain things, but the effect it has on the person they are talking to can be quite destructive, and it seems like they are not aware of these effects.

Time is up for discussion and there is a small break. Afterwards, there are going to be statements followed by a debate. The statements are about the three topics of the day: sexuality, disability and racism. In the morning, small groups had been made according to who was going to be for or against the statement and which topic was going to be assigned to them. Afterwards, Dana, the transwoman speaking about LGBTQ tells me that she had quite a heated discussion with one of the girls, who refused to be in the group being against Zwarte Piet, because that was ‘not done’ on a personal level. Dana said she and the girl really got into an argument to the point which made the girl cry, because it was all too much for her. It was most definitely not Dana’s intention for the girl to cry, but she just could not understand why a person would not even be willing to argue something, just as part of a debate, regardless of one’s own feelings, so she confronted this girl with it.

We walk into another room and set it up for the debate. Two groups will argue against each other and the third one will be the judge. The discussion panel members will be the jury. While sitting at the debate I feel like the atmosphere changes when we talk about things other than racism. Discussion does not get so heated and people are not getting agitated, which shows me that the topic of racism really triggers most people. While the jury is deliberating, the class is chatting amongst each other. Suddenly another teacher comes in. He seems like a very well-liked teacher, because he receives a warm welcome from the class. The teacher has a big afro and dark skin. One of the guys asks him what he thinks about the statements written on the board. Upon reading the debate statements, he says he does not agree with “afschaffen van Zwarte Piet”

(‘abolishing Black Pete’). Therefore, some of the students say: “ZIE JE WEL? Niet iedereen haat Zwarte Piet” (‘SEE? Not everyone hates Zwarte Piet’). That is just great, I think to myself. Martin has just endured this cross-examination, and as some of the students were at least trying to be more open to a different opinion, this teacher comes in and basically tells them that Martin is

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wrong and he is not even here to say something about it. I understand the students’ point of view. They know this teacher, a black man, he does not mind all the fuss about Zwarte Piet, so end of discussion. This situation shows how a personal opinion can obstruct a greater public debate, by creating an image of people according to the ones you know. So, if the teacher is their example of a black man, it seems logical that they care more for his opinion and they do not want to change things because the person it concerns does not care. Their frame of reference tells them this. You could wonder what the actual situation is here: this black man might not want any trouble at his work place, seeing how much this debate evokes, he might want to keep his personal opinion to himself, or he might simply not care, which is also a valid possibility. However, this does not take away the argument that there is something inherently wrong with Zwarte Piet and that it has its roots in colonialism and racism. Unfortunately, these two things are difficult to disconnect in people’s mind and make it more difficult to convey a message. A little while later the students are discussing amongst each other, and while the jury is still deliberating one of them started to hum the beginning of a Sinterklaas song. Then another student says: “Oh dit mogen we nu natuurlijk niet doen, he?” (‘Oh, we cannot do this now, can we?’) and everyone laughs. This type of commenting happens a lot when talking about a sensitive subject, it almost feels like this is a way of coping with difficult things. I am thinking that under these

circumstances people are not going to change their minds but maybe they will later upon thinking about it further.

A week later I went to Utrecht, another city in the Netherlands, where I attended another guest lesson at a high school. Utrecht is right in the middle of the country, and just like its

physical location, people of Utrecht are always right in the middle. They are polite, politically correct and do not make a fuss. Everything is nicely in order. At the school, parents of the students had the opportunity to show something about their work or their interest and two parents chose to give education on Zwarte Piet. The parents, Fred and Lauren had been fighting against Zwarte Piet for some years at the schools in Utrecht. They had talked to the school boards and they agreed to get rid of the figure Zwarte Piet. Now they wanted to share some of this with the children, and as they knew Martin, they invited him as well to come and help them. We were sent to a classroom where we could sit in a circle with the children. There were two rounds of children coming. Fred introduced the topic and the reason why they wanted to share this. Lauren gave her personal testimony of how it was to come to the Netherlands to live and to experience the celebration of Sinterklaas as a foreigner, because she used to live in the United States. Then Martin would give a short presentation followed by a discussion.

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In the second round there were nine girls joining us with their teacher, a young woman. During the presentation, another teacher came in and said she wanted to listen and send some e-mails, which I thought was kind of strange – would there be other teachers sitting in at other parents’ activities? I wondered. A little while later yet another teacher came in, but she did sit with the group. I later discovered that she was the school’s principal. The presence of the two additional teachers did not feel right. It made me feel as if they wanted to control what was going on. I was feeling slightly uncomfortable and my hands were starting to sweat a little. The second woman especially, that joined the conversation was nodding heavily at everything that was being said, while being on her phone. I was just waiting for her to say something, either good or bad. And so it went. We were talking about stereotyping and how you usually presume a white person to be Dutch and a non-white person to be a foreigner, which is not always the case, but that is how our minds usually work. She then started by saying: first, that she was heel erg (‘very’) against Zwarte Piet and that this was a multicultural and tolerant school and that she had worked in and visited Africa a lot. Sitting right behind her on a chair, I started wondering. Why does this woman give this information? I think this has to do with authority and legitimacy. Giving

yourself the credit that you know what is going on and you are about to tell someone else what is right or wrong because of your experiences.

While I am sitting there, the children are all looking a little bit startled, as well as the teacher in their circle, but Martin just stays really calm and lets the woman finish. She says: “Ik heb het idee dat je wil zeggen dat zij (looking at the children) schuldig zijn aan iets” (‘I get the feeling that you are blaming them for something’). She is basically reprimanding Martin for what he is saying in front of the children, interrupting his story. “Ik vraag me ook af of een oordeel altijd vanuit

discriminatie komt, maar soms gewoon stereotypering, wat niet altijd negatief is” (‘I also wonder if judgment is always from a point of discrimination or just because of stereotyping, which is not always negative’). “Wanneer je in Afrika bent, zal je waarschijnlijk een zwart persoon om de richting vragen, toch?” (‘When you are in Africa, you will probably ask a black person for direction, right?’) she says. But Martin asks: “Ja, misschien, maar aan wie denk je bij Nederland?” (‘Yes, maybe, but who do you think about, when talking about Dutch?’) “Een wit person, toch?” (‘A white person, right?’). Which I think is a fair question, but probably brings on the idea that when the teacher admits to this, she is being ‘racist’, or ‘negatively stereotyping’, so what happens is that she puts it on the children, still present, saying: “Nee, dit is niet wat jullie denken, toch, jongens?” (‘No, this is not what you guys think, right?’) Asking a class of children, when debating with another adult about a sensitive topic, in a position of power – being the principal – will not give the opportunity to your students to answer any question in another way than in the way you suggest them to answer, so

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they just shrug and say nothing much. What Martin tried to make clear was that the point of the question of what a Dutch person would look like, was that there is a certain view of the

Netherlands and what people live here. So, thinking about the Netherlands you would probably think about a white person wearing clogs, as a stereotype. There is nothing wrong with that, but the point is not that people are racist and have bad intentions. The point is that a stereotypical thought can be implemented in a way that sometimes result in marginalizing and disadvantaging people long term. Being aware of this, so-called blind spot, can make people more aware of others around them.

After this woman’s monologue, she just leaves, which shows me that she only wanted to make a point, being more politically correct, and then just removes herself from the situation. The class ends and, on our way out, some other teachers greet Martin and thank him for his guest lesson and the woman also appears to say goodbye and says she is happy that people deal with progressive issues. Standing there, listening, I wonder if people would talk to Martin differently, had he not been in black clothes, like he was today again, but wearing a shirt and tie, being more professor-like. But this is how he always dresses. Just casual, in black shaded clothes, with his backpack on his back, not pretending he wants to be anything he is not. And that is also his strength, because he is one of us, one of the people, which makes him accessible, even to the ones who are reluctant to talk to him, because of his standpoint. When they see that he is dressed as a ‘regular citizen’ they probably do not feel threatened. This also made me dress comfortably because I did not feel like I had to try to be anyone else.

We walk back to the tram and I say: “Zo, dat was wel even intens zeg” (‘Well, that was quite intense’) “Ja, klopt, die vrouw probeerde mij te vertellen wat ik fout doe, maar dat liet ik niet gebeuren” (‘Yes, true, the woman tried to tell me what I am doing wrong, but I did not let that happen’). Martin tells me about how some people want to combat symptoms instead of reaching the core. Like the woman just wanted to have Martin say that only extreme people can have racist thoughts, because those actions are self-explanatory instead of looking at the bigger problem that there is something inherently racist about the way most people think, because of stereotypes and that this is something we must be cautious about.

1.4 Analysis

Looking at the classroom discussions, the broader context of the Netherlands, but also the school system, need to be considered and explain how people treat each other and what indicators are important for defining their behavior (Tucker & Govender 2017: 353).

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Starting with race, gender and especially masculinity as indicators in the classroom discussion, we see that in Den Haag, the white boys talk most of the time in a defensive way, which Tucker & Govender explain as “[d]efensive responses were framed as an active refusal of change, in which essentialist notions of male superiority, often based on markers of sex and race, are promoted to normalize and justify violent reassertions of power.” (2017: 355, emphasis in the original), while the rest of the class is quiet, unless they feel harassed – like the instance with the Moroccan boy. This indicates the signs of white male superiority. At the PABO the two guys are the ones arguing with Martin again, showing these same responses, and that the girls do not say much. There is the other encounter with Dana and the girl before we arrive, and I can imagine that this girl would not have had the same encounter with Martin, had he been there. There is a gendered standard going on – men talking to men and women talking to women. Also, in the interaction with the guys and Martin, the one talking about feeling hurt came across as one of the leaders in class, who had something to say about everything, and would take the lead in discussions. The other one seemed more in the background, but showed masculinity and male superiority through appearance – being physically fit – but also talking about his father serving in the army, alluding to a gendered, heteronormative family and appraising fighting for his country as a noble and nationalistic thing to do. All these things reinforce the idea of gendered masculinity. Later when the teacher with the afro comes in, they have a friendly, ‘brotherly’ conversation, as men among each other. The way they acted with each other was very amicaal (“amicable”), and with a “Wij, mannen doen niet zo moeilijk over die dingen” (‘We, men, are not difficult about these things’) attitude, which brings masculinity to the fore.

Having three different places in the Netherlands does not only give insights into how different people react, but also how they reflect their city: Den Haag, Utrecht and Alkmaar. The first two being part of the Randstad and the latter as part of the countryside. When we go to Alkmaar, we see that most students at the school, are white, and that they are against change, embracing the defensive response. But there is something else. It is not a black vs. white issue, if we consider the reaction of someone that also lives in Alkmaar, the teacher with the afro. Therefore, it might be a Randstad vs. rest of the country issue. The examples show that this is the way white Dutch get educated. Martin comes in to give a guest lesson and this is how they learn something. Whether this way of teaching is ‘successful’ is a different story. For students that are going to be teachers and have a position of power and will educate next generations Dutch, they are expected to be able to think outside of their own world and find ways to imagine being any child with any kind of background and situation.

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Going to Den Haag, we see that within the classroom there is a diverse ethnic background, and even though they do not directly sit together, they are able to be in the same room and everyone can say what they want. The position of the teachers here is quite interesting. They did not say much during the discussion and just let the children converse with each other, which to me seemed like a position of supervision in which they wanted the children to figure it out together. Much different from the school in Utrecht, where the school’s principal wanted to correct Martin and was not just there for supervision or out if interest, but because she wanted him to be politically more correct and control the situation. This also indicates signs of superiority, even though she is a woman, but because she is the principal, she ranks higher in the social hierarchy. But where does that leave Martin, the man from Amsterdam, where being outspoken is the norm, rather than the exception? In my opinion, Martin represents within these examples, former mayor of Amsterdam, Job Cohen, by keeping everyone together and working as a connector and being above the outburst of people.10

In this chapter I have shown how Martin depicts the community as a charismatic leader who reaches out to the public and educates the Netherlands on racism and how different people in different cities all have their own story. In the next chapter I will put forward someone who is also educating the Netherlands on racism, more on an organizational level and from a woman’s perspective. Let’s meet Rosa.

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Chapter 2 Organizing the community: a woman’s perspective

2.1 Rosa

I arrive at Pakhuis de Zwijger, a cultural organization and independent platform of and for the city of Amsterdam, as they describe themselves (see photo 3 below). My other key informant, Rosa, invited me to come to a movie screening and discussion about a

Dutch-Moroccan woman, who goes back to Morocco, asking about equal rights for women and finding out more about her family history. Rosa is moderating the event. She is a speaker and motivator concerning inclusion, diversity and dialogue. She gives trainings and organizes events and workshops that combat racism, discrimination and bias. When I contacted her to talk about my research, she invited me to come and watch her moderate and meet her in person. We spoke on the phone briefly, so I do not know much about her. I had not heard about her before, but when we talked, she asked me to look up some of her talks. Upon searching, I found that Rosa gives priority to issues surrounding women’s rights and equality between men and women.

I am quite early, because I want to say hello before the program starts. Tonight, I am wearing a blouse and jacket, a little more formal than usual. I still feel quite comfortable, but I want to make a good impression and Pakhuis de Zwijger seems like the type of venue that requires a more formal attire. I step into the building, where I have never been before. It is a big building with a café-restaurant on the level floor, and two floors up there is a main hall, where most of the events take place. I walk into the main hall. The room is very tall and spacious with bright lights and big screens on three sides of the walls. There are rows of chairs and there is a stage in front with a few big couches. Because it is a movie screening in front of the chairs are beanbags for people to relax in. The setting looks informal, though hip and new. It is not a boring, formal conference room, but the space looks like it brings life. People are setting up the room. I look to see Rosa. Because of my prior research on her, I know what she looks like. Then I see her and I slowly walk towards her. She also notices me and we greet each other. I am kind of nervous and do not really know what to say, so we chat a bit and I say: “Succes vanavond!” (‘Good luck tonight!’). Rosa is dressed quite formal. She is wearing black pants, heels and a black and white striped jacket. She is also wearing lipstick. I go look for a place to sit. I do not want to be in the back, but also not in the front, because I want to have an overview of the room. So, I go sit somewhere in the middle at the end of a row. Soon more people enter the room, some of them greet each other, but there are some people sitting alone. Eventually about a hundred people are attending. The evening begins and Rosa introduces the topic and the people involved.

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We watch the movie and afterwards, the discussion panel is introduced. They discuss what we have just seen and debate the topic of tradition, Western society, and family values. Rosa walks around the stage laughing and talking to her guests, interacting with the audience. Her demeanor is spontaneous, she triggers people to give a response and makes them feel comfortable by making jokes and lightening the mood. She is not afraid to say what is on her mind, but at the same time she makes you feel welcomed and comfortable. When the evening is over, the

audience gives her a big round of applause for making them feel part of the evening and not just being spectators. After the event we talk briefly again. She asks me what I thought about the evening and says we can meet up to talk further about fieldwork. I tell her I thought that the movie was very personal and honest and I liked that the topics of tradition, equal rights and family were discussed. Rosa tells me that she asked me to come so that I could have a general view of how she works and what kind of person she is. I say I am positive to work with her. Indeed, seeing her on stage and interacting with others, has given me a certain first impression. I wonder if this will be the same in other settings and meeting one on one.

Photo 3. The main hall at Pakhuis de Zwijger Photo 4. Buurthuis Ganzenhoef

2.2 Buurthuis Ganzenhoef*

The next time we meet is at buurthuis Ganzenhoef in Amsterdam Zuidoost (see photo 4 above). Rosa tells me she gives some of her workshops and trainings here, so she wants to show me the place. I am early again, and when I walk in with my denim jacket and backpack, a group of men is looking at me and I get the feeling they do not understand what I am doing there, but they do not say anything and just continue their business. There are some tables in the main area, so I sit and wait and look around the place. There is a small bar where people can buy drinks, a

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man is standing behind the counter, but does not look at me. There are several rooms

downstairs and a staircase to the first floor. There are a few rooms for dance lessons and fitness training. Rosa walks in, panting a little: “Sorry, ik moest een beetje haasten” (‘Sorry, I had to rush a little’). She is wearing jeans and a t-shirt, no lipstick, more informal than the last time we met at Pakhuis de Zwijger. “Ik heb twee kleine kinderen en het huis is daarom een grote chaos, maar gelukkig is mijn verloofde er nu om bij ze te blijven” (‘I have two small children, so my house is one big mess, but fortunately my fiancé is now there to babysit’). She shows the different rooms, and asks the man behind the counter if he can open up the door upstairs. We go to a room upstairs to talk quieter. This is kind of Rosa’s office, from which she tries to bring the community of Zuidoost – the people living in the same neighborhoods – together through events and activities – in a similar way as Martin tries to bring this community together by organizing activities for the children in the neighborhood – and so this is how she is building up a reputation and how people know her. We sit down and get some tea. I tell her a little bit about my background and the reason why I wanted to do this research. “En waarom wil je dan met mij samenwerken?” (‘And why do you want to work with me?’) she asks me. I tell her about ‘Wit is ook een kleur’ and how I especially found the privilege walk11_{very interesting, in which participants started standing in the same line, and} statements were read out loud concerning everyday life and privilege. Whenever a statement applied to the person, she/he took a step forward or otherwise a step back. At the end of the exercise it was visually clear which people were more privileged than others. This entire setting intrigued me so much, because it made me realize how ‘bad’ and unequal Dutch society is, that this was one of the reasons I started to look for people who are involved in this kind of training in real life. I tell her I heard that she contributed to this particular privilege walk, but also that she provides these trainings to people, who are interested, and that I would like to come to some of these trainings and talk to the people attending them to get a better understanding of why people do this and how it changes them. “Ik wil vooral onderzoeken hoe witte Nederlanders onderwijs krijgen in racisme en waarom. Wat zijn jouw ervaringen met hen? En wat voor soort mensen komen er meestal naar de trainingen en workshops?” (‘I am mainly looking at how white Dutch get educated in racism and why. What are your interactions with white people and what kind of people do you attract to your trainings and workshops?’). She says that most of the people she gives trainings to are part of her network of the Feminist Club in Amsterdam. White people come to learn and non-white people to share their story. The other group she interacts with are people from organizations and the corporate world, who are interested in a training at their workplace.

A community building on hope : an ethnographic account of anti-racism in the Netherlands